Kreidler K54/53B 1973

Verslagen van restauraties, het volledig opknappen en opnieuw opbouwen van een Kreidler - Restoring a Kreidler
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Enzo-tvdzijden
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#26 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 16 nov 2015, 22:10

to make this point correct
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#27 Bericht door Sturmovik » 22 nov 2015, 15:37

Thank you for your support. I think its ok now, the clutch seems to work.

Afbeelding
Ive a question : what about this 15.57.20 spring (Part 14) ? I haven't the two holes, klinknagels and this spring.

Is it for RM version or older RS before Superbreitwand ?

Thanks

Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#28 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 22 nov 2015, 15:51

Sturmovik schreef:Thank you for your support. I think its ok now, the clutch seems to work.

Ive a question : what about this 15.57.20 spring (Part 14) ? I haven't the two holes, klinknagels and this spring.

Is it for RM version or older RS before Superbreitwand ?

Thanks

Florian
They have all. Better, but not necessary.

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#29 Bericht door Sturmovik » 23 nov 2015, 00:48

Really ? I may not have the original clutch basket, because I haven't the two holes for the spring nagels.

I'm also bloqued with my fork. I've dissasembled the thing, and except that my bearing are from an "economy" set, they look like the old ones, same wide and high, same balls, but always the problem with the space between tubes and handlebar plate.

I looked for the bottom conus like you adviced me. I see no major difference between the old and the new.

Afbeelding
And for the fork stearing "stop" plate who's 1cm lower than the "Stuuraanslag" i've an idea...this part was broken, maybe because of an earlier accident. We welded this plate on the fork, It's maybe too short now #-o

I wanna try without the fork distanz ring, but can't, because of the welding.

However, the blok is soon finished. Had to put the ignition, cilinder, and put it on the frame :) Crossing fingers avec Ignition Coil.

Thanks for the support.

Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#30 Bericht door Sturmovik » 05 dec 2015, 12:37

Hello,

im still blocked on my fork stearing problem.. Ive re'checked all the thing, checked if new bearings were like olds : It match, exactly same sizes...And, i cannot put my vork bovenplaat correctly #-o

Afbeelding

Afbeelding
I've only 19mm between the top of the screw thread and the boven cup. Not enough thread to put the draadring + the bovenplaat + ring and nut....

If I put the vork bovenplaat without the top bearing, wee can see I have not the place to put the top bearing :|
Afbeelding

I cannot tight the fork nut correctly, and the bovenplaat don't match with the two tubes...
Afbeelding

Like i said i've compared with olds, I see no difference. My frame is from 1973 with the Neimann on the left side, my fork is a at least a 1973, I've from bottom to top :

Fork - 57.06.37 Distanzring - 37.29.11 28mm vorkring - 37.52.42 Framecup onder - 37.02.40 Framecup boven - 37.02.41 Draadring - 57.06.18 vork bovenplaat - And the ring + the nut

Im working on the blok while meantime, but I should re mount the front of my Kreidler a day. Have you and idea ? Thanks

Best Regards,Good Week-End, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#31 Bericht door Sturmovik » 05 dec 2015, 15:50

I've just tested with old bearings. After some measurement, old original and economy baldhoofset are different ! Not much, but....
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
Some milimeters added to millimeters makes me gain a few space

With this Original Config, I can put the boveplaat, the plaat didn't touch the two fork tubes, 3 or 4 mm are missing. Iv gain some space, but not enough....
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

But If i tight the two SW13 screw, the bovenplaat twist a bit and goes on the two tubes. Problem, with this tension, I create and hard point on the stearing, like when you have a broked bearing.

Twisting the bovenplaat is the "Normal" Montage ? With all original bearings now, I don't know what should I try different to fit this fork...

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#32 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 05 dec 2015, 18:01

If jou measure the upper pipe ?
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#33 Bericht door Caspar » 05 dec 2015, 21:30

And what is the diameter of your bearing-balls ? About 6mm ?

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#34 Bericht door Sturmovik » 06 dec 2015, 14:44

It is really strange, I have the exact same length as yours ! And my bearing balls are original also yes, about 6mm. Didn't you have tension on the bovenplaat like mine ?
:|

Thanks

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#35 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 06 dec 2015, 14:48

Sturmovik schreef:It is really strange, I have the exact same length as yours ! And my bearing balls are original also yes, about 6mm. Didn't you have tension on the bovenplaat like mine ?
:|

Thanks
NO, sometimes i need an extra thin ring for extra hight.

Buy onother (better) set by a different supplyer.

When the diameter of the bals are OK the problem maybe in wrong size of the cups

Can you replace the BEST original old set cups ???????

Enzo
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#36 Bericht door Sturmovik » 06 dec 2015, 16:02

But the problem is that with old original Kreidler cup, I have tension on the Bovenplaat. You say that you need a ring between bovenplaat and draadring ? Why is my original setup incorrect..I purchased a Balhoofdset compleet economy and cups were too high.

Yesterday I re-mounted my original old Kreidler cups, ring, and draadring after a bit of clean and new grease. I've gain few millimeters, but I have tension on the bovenplaat too #-o

I purchased a new bovenplaat (Old was broken, came frome a damaged Kreidler) Maybe this new part has a design default ? It's not an "economy"
Voorvorkbovenplaat zwart/grondkleur 57.06.18

It is really strange :| Or Im stupid :lol:

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#37 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 06 dec 2015, 16:09

Sturmovik schreef:But the problem is that with old original Kreidler cup, I have tension on the Bovenplaat. You say that you need a ring between bovenplaat and draadring ? Why is my original setup incorrect..I purchased a Balhoofdset compleet economy and cups were too high.

Yesterday I re-mounted my original old Kreidler cups, ring, and draadring after a bit of clean and new grease. I've gain few millimeters, but I have tension on the bovenplaat too #-o

I purchased a new bovenplaat (Old was broken, came frome a damaged Kreidler) Maybe this new part has a design default ? It's not an "economy"
Voorvorkbovenplaat zwart/grondkleur 57.06.18

It is really strange :| Or Im stupid :lol:
NEVER BUY ECONOMY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thin ring 57.01.02 UNDER the bovenplaat 57.06.18 :!:

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#38 Bericht door Sturmovik » 06 dec 2015, 17:31

Yes I know because of poor quality. I choosed them because of the "set"....But why can't I mount the new boveplaat with original old Kreidler bearings....this is a Mistery.. I've at least 3mm of space between vork tubes and bovenplaat, and im supposed to mount the ring too #-o

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#39 Bericht door Sturmovik » 06 dec 2015, 19:59

This is what I have when I put the bovenplaat on the fork, and without the ring between draadring and plaat.....
When I Tight the two SW13 screw it close the plaat, but with tension.
Afbeelding

Meanwhile, I've worked on the blok :)

Presenting the thing
Afbeelding

And married with his Florett !
Afbeelding

The MHKZ Ignition : Crossing fingers about coils. Hope I will get a nice blue Spark !
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

The wiring is temporary. I should find cable socket like those for the connection to the Igniton Box, mines are too small.
Afbeelding


Much thanks for your support !

Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#40 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 06 dec 2015, 20:25

That is the connection wrong one for the ingnitionbox cable. You need this one for the connector http://www.kreidlerparts.com/parts/15.0 ... ontsteking

http://www.kreidlerparts.com/parts/15.0 ... ontsteking
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#41 Bericht door Sturmovik » 07 dec 2015, 00:05

Yes, I have already this connection, I just need the 4 cables socket (I've replaced all old cables by new, and I also need to replace connections)

Where did you get those stuff ? I dind't find those parts in Stores, except on internet.

Tommorow I will finish the blok. Before mounting Cilinder and Head, I've a doubt.

I Found and original 15.43.88 Mahle J 39.97 Piston. It is the one with double ring (Top ring is a L)

What should be the clearance for the two rings ?
Afbeelding

I didn't find this value in Montageeinleitung.

Thanks, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#42 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 07 dec 2015, 01:41

Sturmovik schreef:Yes, I have already this connection, I just need the 4 cables socket (I've replaced all old cables by new, and I also need to replace connections)

Where did you get those stuff ? I dind't find those parts in Stores, except on internet.

Tommorow I will finish the blok. Before mounting Cilinder and Head, I've a doubt.

I Found and original 15.43.88 Mahle J 39.97 Piston. It is the one with double ring (Top ring is a L)

What should be the clearance for the two rings ?

I didn't find this value in Montageeinleitung.

Thanks, Florian
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5659

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#43 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 07 dec 2015, 01:43

Enzo-tvdzijden schreef:That is the connection wrong one for the ingnitionbox cable. You need this one for the connector http://www.kreidlerparts.com/parts/15.0 ... ontsteking

http://www.kreidlerparts.com/parts/15.0 ... ontsteking
For the 4 cable socket i give you erly the Kreidlerparts links [-X

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#44 Bericht door Sturmovik » 07 dec 2015, 18:16

Thanks for support ;) I mounted the cilinder today. I had around 0.30mm clearance on both piston ring, 1cm above top of the cilinder.....like if they were already old..supposed to be a new old stock.

The paint on cilinder and head is finished.
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
Does that mean 6.8hp ? :roll:

I purchased a 15.43.88 Mahle J Piston. howeever, it didn't seems to be for my cilinder....and the arrow is in the direction of exhaust. On the dissasembly of the blok, I had a Mahle G piston, to little, but the piston skirt was longer...maybe an RM ?
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

By turning the crankshaft, when the piston "start" to open inlet transfert, the crown isnt already on the "dead top point" > "BDP" Is that normal ?
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

An other question, my old exhaust was completely battered. I purchased a new "original" with the 32mm 15.03.16 Bocht and the 15.23.88 32mm Demper.

If i connect to cilinder, the demper isn't aligned with screw holes.
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
My exhaust is longer, like for the RM. Should i just short the Bocht or will this long exhaust give me a bit of additional Torque ?


Same problem with my new "original" airbox...longer as my old cracked. Dont know how make it shorter. The hole didn't match with frame inlet...
Afbeelding

Thanks !

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#45 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 07 dec 2015, 18:28

- 0,3 mm is perfect
- 40 ZN17 of the 15.43.99 is a latetest Cilinder but 6,8 ps was only marketing
- skirt is equal with RM Mahle piston. RM piston has not a L-ring. Only two block rings. What you see in the inlet is normal. J or G is only diameter size. You has to measure that between cilinder/piston 0,03 mm is right.
- rm exhaust is 28 mm and the RS exhaust is 32 mm. Shorten the bocht gives less torque
- airbox is only China production and do not fitt. You cut with a sharp knife and make it weak with hot water to fitt

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#46 Bericht door Sturmovik » 07 dec 2015, 18:50

Ahhh, I feel reassured thanks ! But for the piston rings, Only 0.10mm left before end of life on new parts ? I read about 0.18 - 0.20 for new rings.

I tought i purchased the wrong piston...

For the exhaust, If i want to settle the demper on the two screw holes of footrest, I should shorten the bocht. What would you do ? Keep this length and make a support to settle the demper or cut and keep the original length ?

> I thought "Original" parts were really original Kreidler......so that is marketing too ? For some parts I now they are reproduced, but all of them ? So im confusing NAS and Original.

For the Airbox, I replaced the thing because old was broken, may I use a cutter ?
> When my painter sanded the frame, a bit of sand get inside...Before re-mounting all parts, I've tried to clean inside by blowing air with a compressor. I saw today some sand who's still inside....And I'm afraid that the Bing suck it...

An idea to get this grains of sand out ?

> About the Piston, I've searched and I found the correct "Maat" on Kreidler Dienst, the last J on the website, because my cilinder as a 40.01mm bore. Instead of Mahle, wich Piston you mount on Kreidler ? Meteor ? I only found A, B, and C. When your above, an other brand exist ? Im thing for the next time, I didn't think I will find an original Mahle each time... For how many kilometers is the piston advised ? About 15.000 ?

Thanks

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#47 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 07 dec 2015, 19:25

Take a vacuumcleaner and air compresser with pistol.

The sand makes 100% damage to your piston. Away with that.

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#48 Bericht door Zolenheuvel » 07 dec 2015, 19:47

About the sand in the frame; I shouldn't take any risk, cause it'll destroi your cilinder.
The best solution is, dissamble the frame.
Rinse it with wasbenzine. Make it dry with a airpress (longtime).
After you're sure its dry, inject the frame fully inside with ML Tectyl.
Let it dry.

Good luck.
Gr Kees

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#49 Bericht door Sturmovik » 07 dec 2015, 20:43

Mmmm, what is Ironic is that I've already cleaned the inside after it came back from painter, with the air compressor and acetone...I saw today that some sand were still in the bottom of the frame, waiting for destroying my engine #-o

I should find a powerful waccum with a small pipe to put in the frame... I take a lot of time to mount all parts, i'd rather think to sand in the past #-o

For the Tectyl, you inject from two air inlet at the bottom of the seat ? It hold alone on frame walls ? This may prevent possible rest of sand to be aspired by carburator ?
Because i don't know if will pull all the sand off with succes. Only a few grains remains at the bottom of frame. I should've fill frame holes with someting before bring it to painter #-o

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#50 Bericht door Zolenheuvel » 07 dec 2015, 21:00

Maybe you can read this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=45030&hilit=tectyl

Gr Kees

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