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BerichtGeplaatst: zo okt 08, 2017 11:23 am 
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Gern geschehen. :)

Der Abzieher hat genug Platz, sieht wie gesagt auf den Bildern nur etwas knapp aus, man kann, selbst wenn man den Abzieher weiter nach vorn schiebt, die Kurbelwelle noch etwas hin und her drehen.

Ich werde den Abzieher so lassen, wie er ist. Um die Überdeckung zu erhöhen, könnte man auch eine Unterlegscheibe oder ähnliches mit ca. 15mm Innendurchmesser (so schlank ist die Welle an der Stelle) aufschlitzen und unter das Zahnrad legen.
Ich sehe aber für die Zahnflanken oder das Zahnrad auch kein Problem, wenn man das Maul auf ca. 23mm erweitert und der Abzieher direkt auf die Zahnradfläche drückt, die Kraft wird doch aufgrund der großen Fläche gut verteilt und das Zahnrad hält auch was aus.

Aber ich bin der Meinung, dass man den Abzieher so lassen kann, wie er ist. Bisher hatte ich ja immer mit einem kleinen 2-Arm-Abzieher gearbeitet und der hatte mit Sicherheit weniger Überdeckung (Kontaktfläche) gehabt.

Den Zweiarmabzieher konnte ich bisher immer mit der Hand gegenhalten, diesen Abzieher kann man natürlich auch besser gegenhalten, wenn es sein muß, kann man eine große Zange verwenden. Aber ich sag mal, wenn das nötig ist, ist da schon irgendwas faul. Dazu auch noch ein alter Schraubertrick: Wenn man den Abzieher schon etwas angespannt hat und sich das Rad noch nicht löst, dann kann man mit einem Hammer leicht auf den Schraubenkopf des Abziehers klopfen, um durch die Schwingungen das Lösen des Rades zu unterstützen. Das kann man in vielen Fällen so machen, z.B. bei den Schlitzschrauben vom Kupplingsdeckel oder auch bei Bremsscheiben vom Auto usw.

Das Ritzel oder das Polrad nicht erhitzen und dann mit dem vorgegebenen Moment festziehen, sonst könnte es sein, dass Du das Zahnrad selbst mit diesem Abzieher nicht mehr ab bekommst ... [-X

Kegel und Aufnahmeloch müssen einfach nur sauber sein, ohne Korrosion und fettfrei, dann mit dem vorgegebenen Anzugsmoment festziehen.

Gruß

Carsten


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BerichtGeplaatst: vr okt 13, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Hello,

Flocke, ich habe grad die Kukko erhalten, nach viel kraft auf die sechskantschraub, eine klein hammer klaps und hat endlich gespringt !


Today I have finally dismantled the blok. My first impressions are weierd...
Afbeelding

Afbeelding
First, this dirt I find one the both seals. I think about the grease I used for the mounting, but not sure...

See the dirt between the crank and the bearing rings too...

Afbeelding
Afbeelding

I am not sure, because I dont feel any grain, but I remind me that I had several sand in the frame after he came back from paint shop... Remember at this time you advised me to treat it with Tectyl. At the time, I had washed the frame and sprayed a Tectyl corrosion protect.
Afbeelding

Maybe the death of old Nicasil get the conrod needle bearing problem worse... Because I can affirm you 100% (And I have verified everything) that I have NO sand remaining in the frame today. Even no trace of grain in the inlet, in the airbox, or on the filter.

So, I dont know why this brand new overhauled crankshaft died so quickly, maybe is this 16.65.61 imitatie bad, or the needle bearing is a shit, or I had lubrication issues *

Afbeelding

> I have almost 0.04mm of Radial play !!! With the crank fastened on the vise, i can really feel the play, it make a noise too !
Afbeelding

I think we just avoided a big collapse, but rebuilding without finding the source of the problem has no reason...

For me it is the bad shape of the cilinder that caused all those damages on the bottom end... The bad nicasil went gone, causing the bore to enlarge a bit, and that expanded the initial piston play to "Too much" play, causing piston slap, balance, and vibration ?

And the particles went throught crank bearings, detroying them.... Just a theory, but I have no other idea...

And you see, the mounted ring is the only 600km fag, and on the right I compare with the old ori SKF I keeped... The old looks better, crazy...
Afbeelding

* Coming back to lubrication, I remind that I rode 600km with a bit fat carburation, on 1:25 with the Castrol Power 1 Semi-Synth... The Mixture screw was like required, an half turn back. I mounted a 80 mainjet instead of the 78 for the beguining, prefer rich than poor...

The spark was a B9HS, I finde the 8 too much hot. The ignition was set to 0.95 before top dead point, and I had no air leaking, like we may have with bad seals, old gaskets...etc...

Need to find the why...

Good week-end, Florian


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BerichtGeplaatst: vr okt 13, 2017 4:35 pm 
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This looks a lot like a sand problem, what air filter do you use?


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BerichtGeplaatst: vr okt 13, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Hello, I have a genuine Bing Filter that I purchased on the Faak-Tillmans Shop, the metal one, no foam. The oil is supposed to keep dust in the "honeycomb".

As I said, I have ZERO remaining sand in the whole inlet circuit, and I'd verified the frame inside with a mini camera... Only the Tectyl is visible ;)

-> Here is the video about the crankshaft damage... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7lmAOs ... e=youtu.be When forcing, about 0.06mm radial play !

Christ I am disgusted...

Next week It will go to Arnold the specialist ;) For my side, I have to find the reason of those issues... and take a decision about top end... bad shape Mahle, no answers from LVS (maybe in vaccation ?) thinking about a KT, but don't want to make a bad choice...

Thanks


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BerichtGeplaatst: vr okt 13, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Hello,

Where do you buy the crankshaft?
Why do you used plastic cage bearings? I have bad experiences with those ones.
You said that you have done 600km, but it can that all the sand and dirt already is gone in the intake, be carefull with sandblasting.
Did you sandblast the engine??
Where do you live in france, i am 25km from Lille, i a can help..

thanks


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BerichtGeplaatst: vr okt 13, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Hallo,

maybe is that your crankshaft of the cheap Model from NC..... that is no quality....

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kreidler-Kurbelw ... 1105879898


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BerichtGeplaatst: za okt 14, 2017 1:56 am 
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No guys,

My crankshaft is the original Kreidler ;) Remember the topic : viewtopic.php?f=23&t=45068

We just changed the conrod by a new one from Kreidler parts :

15.65.61 : Drijfstangset met zilveren kooi, origineel Kreidler! uitmuntende kwaliteit nu voor.... * (Not Economy) But looks like a shit too...) and get the whole thing balanced. Conrod looks like the top-racing, but has the 16.65.61 number.... Look fater than my old ori, and has two lubrication hole instead of one. Was delivered with the two bronze shims to ad...

* Strange that this part is not selled anymore ^^ Or ?

Frédéric, I finded on every shop that BO17 was selled with the plastic cage, the only steel I finded is the NSK. What problem you got ? I have trouble with the needle bearing, today no specific play on the both BO17, but they looke like their old now, after only 600...

For the sandblasting, the painted made me a beautifal powder coating, after a "métallisation" (electro corrosion protector). He was supposed to protect every holes of the frame, as he said me at the time that I will do it... This dumbass has not made it... I had those sand issues, I had to remake every screw threads too... And to finish, the mounting of steering cups, and swingarm buses was first impossible because of too much thickness of the paint...

But I repeat, I have no more sand, and that was before first start of engine ;) I had discovered the problem way before finishing the engine ;)

The blok was not sanded, carters were putted in a factory machine who removed the grease, the oil, the dirt...etc. I just sanded the cilinder and the "kop" but I covered the entire bore, exhaust and inlet holes.... and I verified after, cleaned 2 or 3 times, and after let made the new honage...

I persist to think that there is some particles of alu and old Nicasil who went through bearings, or I dont know anything else possiblity...

To answer you, I live in East of France ;) more than 600km ago from Lille :/


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BerichtGeplaatst: za okt 14, 2017 9:38 am 
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Your theorie about the metal partikels from your worn-out cilinder could be true.

I had the same problem with na old worn-out Zeta cilinder without NiCaSil coating.
Even the best cranckshaft with the best bearings will die under those circumstances....


Laatst bijgewerkt door Caspar op za okt 14, 2017 11:38 am, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.

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BerichtGeplaatst: za okt 14, 2017 10:15 am 
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Sturmovik schreef:
No guys,

My crankshaft is the original Kreidler ;) Remember the topic : viewtopic.php?f=23&t=45068

We just changed the conrod by a new one from Kreidler parts :

15.65.61 : Drijfstangset met zilveren kooi, origineel Kreidler! uitmuntende kwaliteit nu voor.... * (Not Economy) But looks like a shit too...) and get the whole thing balanced. Conrod looks like the top-racing, but has the 16.65.61 number.... Look fater than my old ori, and has two lubrication hole instead of one. Was delivered with the two bronze shims to ad...

* Strange that this part is not selled anymore ^^ Or ?

Frédéric, I finded on every shop that BO17 was selled with the plastic cage, the only steel I finded is the NSK. What problem you got ? I have trouble with the needle bearing, today no specific play on the both BO17, but they looke like their old now, after only 600...

For the sandblasting, the painted made me a beautifal powder coating, after a "métallisation" (electro corrosion protector). He was supposed to protect every holes of the frame, as he said me at the time that I will do it... This dumbass has not made it... I had those sand issues, I had to remake every screw threads too... And to finish, the mounting of steering cups, and swingarm buses was first impossible because of too much thickness of the paint...

But I repeat, I have no more sand, and that was before first start of engine ;) I had discovered the problem way before finishing the engine ;)

The blok was not sanded, carters were putted in a factory machine who removed the grease, the oil, the dirt...etc. I just sanded the cilinder and the "kop" but I covered the entire bore, exhaust and inlet holes.... and I verified after, cleaned 2 or 3 times, and after let made the new honage...

I persist to think that there is some particles of alu and old Nicasil who went through bearings, or I dont know anything else possiblity...

To answer you, I live in East of France ;) more than 600km ago from Lille :/


Hello,

When the engine don't turn for a while (for 2 years) and after it you restart him i had have that de plastic cage broken (spilt). I Always mount the nsk bearings.
Your crankshaft is mayby not the most expensive one but not a bad crank for an original engine set.
If I was you, I would let nicaseal the original cylinder by powerseal with the right piston, or you buy an immitation cylinder and let it "update".

thanks


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BerichtGeplaatst: za okt 14, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Hello,

Caspar, I was not sure If it was a crazy theory or not, but I feel more confident now ;) Your Zeta was a mirror too before issues ?

Frédéric, effectively, After the overhaul and first start of my engine, It was stopped a year, because I had no time to continue... But I filled the bottom end with oil to protect it. Are those NSK as good as the original old SKF ? I search first reliability, then after only performance ;)

Did you know more about my imitatie "drifjstang" ? Looks also like it is the particles that broke the bearing. I did not remember yet if at the time of the restauration I mounted the needle bearing that was supplied with the drifjstang set or if I mounted the 15.65.66 bigend lager I purchased at the same time one Kreidlerparts (Because I wasn't knowing that everything was provided with the rod : bigend, topend lager...etc)

I will say you when the crank will be in parts ;)

Today, I feel satisfied, because I heated a bit the two carters, and each bearing felt easily down, without press ;) A bit of cleaning, and I will send the left one, and the crankshaft to Arnold ;)

> For the cilinder, I wait and advise of LVS, If we try to save the original (But will be very expansive, a lot of work, specially on the gasket surfaces who are not perfect flat...) or If the KT is not so bad, I may let him "tune", or correct it ;)

My cilinderkop need a save too.... the gasket surface is not perfect, and the combustion chamber may be hit by rings in the past... why not trying a removable kop, with the O-Ring ? It is a way to keep my kop, because coolings fins are great, only the chamber...

Nice Week-end guys, Florian


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BerichtGeplaatst: za okt 14, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Florian, i know Kees raced VanVeen the whole season with NSK with very high revs.

Enzo


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BerichtGeplaatst: zo okt 15, 2017 10:08 am 
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So I will choose NSK this time ;) It is wright that steel looks more reliable ^^

Tomorrow the parts will go to Holland. I hope my delivery will not be loose ^^

I read a few topics about the KT Cilinder. A guy speak about adding a 1.5mm shim under the voet... But the kop as to be modified too.

I wait for LVS, if the KT finishing is good, and if it can be adjusted to be as good as a 40ZN17, or a bit more, why not...

This time I aim a better dan neuiw ! So I made a list about some things I could make better now. First, buy pakkingen one by one, to have a good thickness ; Then, the NSK bearings, and the additionel left carter seal, and the Rito ; also, what about oil seals ? May I rebuy the complet 5 versnelling set I mounted in the past, or Vuiton ?

For my clutch who was very hard to pull, I controlled yesterday the whole mechanism, with the ball, and the two stift... everything looks fine, exept the clutch arm who's a bit wear... My "shoetellveer" is 1.5mm, so normally the original. But he may get stiff with the years or ? I may buy a new one.

Thanks


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BerichtGeplaatst: zo okt 15, 2017 11:43 am 
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Is the hole for the clutch arm not worn out ?
Arnold can refurbish the hole.
Otherwise check the free space in the clutch basket: the friction platen should move free and easaly in the basket.
Next time combine your shipping to Arnold and Claus. .

I prefer the Kaco oil seals.

My Zeta was worn out , and Some one used Chrome piston rings on the soft aluminium cilinder...
Thats why i had the same symptons as you


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BerichtGeplaatst: zo okt 15, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Hello, the hole as a few stripes, but the arm turn freely ;) I'll ask Arnold, so he can tell me if he find a problem ;)

How refurbishing the hole ? Adding a bus inside ? A needle bearing ?

For the clutch basket, disks were moving nice. For the shipping, it is not gone yet, I will send tomorrow. If my cilinder is repairable, I can give it, but I wait for advise ;)

For pakking and seals, you also buy them one by one on John Bos shop ?

No chance for your Zeta, but was before restoration or ?

Thanks


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BerichtGeplaatst: wo okt 18, 2017 5:40 pm 
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Arnold can tell you all about it. usualy a bus inside to repair the hole

My Zeta was ready for the scrapp-yard :-( , and the crackshaft as well...
It is posible to repair it with a new NiCaSil coating , or bore it up to 42mm.
But for less money you can buy a brand new KTT breitwand cilinder with a good piston.
( this happend years ago , i bought a new Zeta for about € 140,- )


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BerichtGeplaatst: wo okt 18, 2017 8:00 pm 
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hello,

don´t use the Viton-Rings, because they damage your Crankshaft !!

have a loot at the picture

the first Photo is the ignitionside
the second Photo is the clutchside

i mean that the beter choice is the Kaco rings


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BerichtGeplaatst: wo okt 18, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Oh damned ! Conception error or what ? Looks like the spring of the seal is not adapted ?

I thought that vuiton was a gage of finishing..... so I will save my money and choose standard ones.

Thanks for the warning ! This must be retired from shop !

A bit more and you can add the two o-ring of shakelas on your krukas :/


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BerichtGeplaatst: do okt 19, 2017 10:57 am 
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it is a Rito cranckshaft is a little softer and the seal probably was not lubricated when the engine was put together. Viton has less friction but more wore when not lubricated.


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BerichtGeplaatst: vr okt 20, 2017 10:20 am 
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Viton seals are perfect for short race/cross purpose , not for long time street use.


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BerichtGeplaatst: di nov 07, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Good evening guys,

I just received some news from Arnold de Specialist, and he made me happy as a kid waiting for christmas ! Good news and he made me a few pictures of the work :

My "old" crank dismantled, see that the pen is already full of stripes :
Afbeelding

Arnold modified the parts on lathe...
Afbeelding

...To fit a 12mm Rito :)
Afbeelding

> With the both flankrings
Afbeelding

Afbeelding

And that is the balance.
Afbeelding

Also, I gaved to Arnold my left carter, shakelas, kickstarteras for modification, and even clutch parts for inspection :

Afbeelding
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

And for the additionnal O-Rings...
Afbeelding

I also asked Arnold to check and said me if he found something wrong ; He detected worn on the clutch hevel hole, and also that the kickstarter gear bus was over, and machined me a new one :)
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

And the ultimate save of the left carter...
Afbeelding

...with a new clutch bus
Afbeelding

...and also a new hevel !
Afbeelding

This time it is gonna be the better dan neuiw I dreamed !

Two words to Arnold, GENIUS WORK ! Made with passion, and answers to all my question ;)

Florian


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BerichtGeplaatst: di nov 07, 2017 9:09 pm 
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I enjoy this kind of pictures.
This is pure art.

Have fun with your reborn engine ;-)


Laatst bijgewerkt door Caspar op wo nov 08, 2017 12:31 pm, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.

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BerichtGeplaatst: wo nov 08, 2017 12:29 am 
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Caspar schreef:
Viton seals are perfect for short race/cross purpose , not for long time street use.


ik heb al vele jaren geleden VITON keerringen gemonteerd in mijn RS blok Casper.

Zorg echter wel dat je de "echte" VITON keerringen monteert....die bruine China-VITON keerringen dus niet !!


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BerichtGeplaatst: wo nov 08, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Er zit idd wel kwaliteits en hardheids verschil in Viton.
Daarbij komt nog dat niet iedere as even hard is.

Ik heb op het werk al genoeg schade door Viton gezien....
Conclusie: overtuig jezelf van het gebruik van de juiste materialen.


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BerichtGeplaatst: do nov 09, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Mijn nieuwe Kukko trekker is geweldig. Makkelijker bestaat NIET.

Enzo


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BerichtGeplaatst: do nov 09, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Aha, hast Du jetzt auch ... klasse. :clap

Mit dem richtigen Werkzeug macht das Basteln einfach 10x mehr Spaß. :D

Gruß

Carsten


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