Kreidler K54/53B 1973

Verslagen van restauraties, het volledig opknappen en opnieuw opbouwen van een Kreidler - Restoring a Kreidler
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Caspar
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#126 Bericht door Caspar » 30 sep 2017, 11:11

Close call...
The piston rings were running on bare alloy / aluminium.
That is why i was worried about the hohnage.
A new NiCaSil coating from Powerseal is about €200,-.
Cheaper is posible , but takes a little time.
LVS can repair your broken Fins ,
But i think it is wise to go for a KTT. Give it a try .
If the result is satisfiying , you can repair your old Mahle as well.

Sturmovik
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#127 Bericht door Sturmovik » 30 sep 2017, 12:02

Hello,

I will wait for the advise of LVS, and take the decision ;) Thanks you for all your explications ;)

Your right, looks we are on aluminium now :/ Two guys ("professionnal") made the honage, no one of them noticed about that they was no more Nicasil...pffff

And I saw the good looking Honage, was not knowing it was no more good... Was of time and money of course...

Wonder if it can't be those small Nicasil particles that wear me the rod needle... wanna see on demontage

Otherwise, I need to send my crank to the specialist, but I can't remove anymore my "krukas tandwiel"

It is strange, I mounted it with the correct torque on the restoration. I don't remember I had troubles twoyears ago with my shit 2 teath trekker on the first demontage... Today it didn't come, and we tried to heat the tandwiel.

What i don't like is the proximity of the tool and the carter. We tried with a Facom bigger one too, it don't come pfffff

We may try to heat more, very curious. Im am afraid to damage carters, wanna think first before doing shit.

Have a nice week-end, Florian

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Caspar
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#128 Bericht door Caspar » 30 sep 2017, 13:23

Put the krukas tandwiel under pressure with your 2 teeth trekker , than try to hit it with a plastic hammer. Heat will help.

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Enzo-tvdzijden
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#129 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 30 sep 2017, 13:46

The hammer :clap and it is easy done.

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#130 Bericht door Sturmovik » 30 sep 2017, 15:42

We have already tried helas. The last year, when I overhauled, I did not had issues to remove the wiel.

I did not torque more than that was on the shop book.

What reference of 2 teeth trekker did you use ? Mine did not pull on a big surface, we are almost on teeth... Should better find a new one who good enclose the tandwiel.

Do you put a small oil film between krukas and tandwiel before mounting to prevent to types of issues ?

The better option would be a 2 shell tool around the wiel, like those used on old Peugeot cars to remove the clutch system... :

http://up.autotitre.com/18e597dbdb.jpg

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Flocke
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#131 Bericht door Flocke » 30 sep 2017, 23:25

The crankshaft and the gear wheel must be dry to transfer the torque of the engine. Because there is no form closure of the two parts, only friction closure.

With a better tool it should be no problem to separate the two parts.

The same case on the other side of the crankshaft between the crankshaft and the magnet wheel of the ignition.

Carsten

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#132 Bericht door Caspar » 01 okt 2017, 08:32

Yep. Dry fit

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Eifelyeti
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#133 Bericht door Eifelyeti » 01 okt 2017, 09:59

Frédéric schreef:Hello,

You don't need to do modifications, it fits on the original rod. I always put wiseco pistons in my new cilinders, they are a bit powerfull (they are lighter).
What type is ist from Wiseco? Have you a number ?

Sturmovik
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#134 Bericht door Sturmovik » 01 okt 2017, 11:08

Ok guys, the problem is my tool ^^ Thanks for explication. I tought I made a mistake on last year mount, but NO ^^

Should buy a real one.

Speaking about tools, I have a question about the BO17 trekkers. In a few time I will have a brand new revised crank, but I will had to adjust the axiaplay on case. If I need (99% sure) to remove the BO17 to ad or remove a few shims behind, will not the trekker teeth damage the track of the inner bearing ring ?

With a such tool : https://www.mototacot.fr/1125-large_def ... -50-mm.jpg

It will damage the track of bearing, causing their death.

Wonder if there is a protection on BO17 trekker between the tool and the ring...

Because i will need it soon to adjust my axis plays.

Thanks, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#135 Bericht door Flocke » 01 okt 2017, 11:13

You need such as this one, than you will not have problems:

BO17-Abzieher

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#136 Bericht door Sturmovik » 01 okt 2017, 13:42

Hi,

Is the tool soft enough to not damage the bearing track on ring ?

Ive seen two models, yours, and and other with a few allen screw.

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#137 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 01 okt 2017, 13:54

Sturmovik schreef:Hi,

Is the tool soft enough to not damage the bearing track on ring ?

Ive seen two models, yours, and and other with a few allen screw.
this two versions are mutch easyer
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#138 Bericht door Flocke » 01 okt 2017, 14:54

Sturmovik schreef:Hi,

Is the tool soft enough to not damage the bearing track on ring ?

Ive seen two models, yours, and and other with a few allen screw.
I used this, no problems. It is the same tool as Kreidler used and which is shown in the Kreidler repair manual. The bearing ring is very hard, but you have to hold the tool firm, so that it does not rotate on the bearing ring.

The princip is the same as the tool from Enzo, however, Enzo's tool fits for a few different bearings, so it is a better tool for a dealer or a workshop. I only need this for BO17.

I would not use the tool with the screws, because you have only a point-contact to the bearing. With the ring-tool you will have a line-contact and a greater pressure area, so there is less pressure at the ring of the bearing.

The quality and the surface (accuracy) of the ring of the tool is important. I bought my tool a few years ago from Kreidler-Dienst or John Bos, it should be the same as the tool from jmpb but it was a little bit cheaper.

Carsten

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#139 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 01 okt 2017, 14:59

Met ringsleutel en steeksleutel 30/32 is het zeer eenvoudig te draaien. Een kind hem demonteren.

Ik heb nog twee ori Kreidler trekkers maar gebruik deze omdat het veel makkelijker gaat. De bovenste op de foto heb ik voor Ron gekocht op Marktplaats.

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#140 Bericht door Sturmovik » 01 okt 2017, 20:45

Enzo your tool looks great, looks very close to my old peugeot clutch trekker :)

Afbeelding

Wonder to find one, otherwise I will choose the one from you Flocke ;) An equivalent system to pull the tandwiel will be great ^^

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#141 Bericht door Flocke » 01 okt 2017, 23:25

For the small gear wheel on the crankshaft I use a small puller with two arms, I dismantled many gearboxes with this tool.

However, there exist a special puller for this task, but I don't have a pic from this tool, it looks like the self-made tool on this pic. I assume, you are able to build such a tool as well ... :)

Carsten
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#142 Bericht door Eifelyeti » 02 okt 2017, 09:55

ik gebruik ook so een... Kugelkopfabzieher 17mm

Foto van Arnold?
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#143 Bericht door Flocke » 02 okt 2017, 10:54

With a special puller it works better as with a two arm puller, that is clear.

Perhaps I order this one from Kukko, before I have to check the measures. You could get other ones at ebay, too:

Puller Kukko

Description

Puller ebay

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#144 Bericht door Sturmovik » 02 okt 2017, 11:27

Guys this is great, I very much thank you for the time you took for me !

Flocke I will see for the ebay 3 puller set, check for dimension. Because this one could be used on my car too ;) It looks way better that the 2 teeth trekker... whit mine crap tool I just bend a few teeth on my ori 21t Hurth...pfff this rod replace his gonna be expansive.

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#145 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 02 okt 2017, 12:46

Their is not much space for the ebay version i think.

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#146 Bericht door Flocke » 02 okt 2017, 13:50

Yes, I think the ebay-tools are too big as well, the link should be only an example.

I made a model from the Kukko, with this I will check it at a gear box. The outer diameter of 55mm is estimated.
The template is relative small, so I think it should be convenient.

Carsten
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#147 Bericht door Sturmovik » 02 okt 2017, 18:01

Hello Flocke, for your template, you made it as the Kukko 128-1 size ?

Is is said " Gabelöffnung C: mm: 18 " so the crank axis should pass, but for the tandwiel teeth I am not sure it fit.

Right, the ebay set is to big, not for this small tandwiel, will not fit.

I made a tour on local sellers, no one has such type of tool, I wanted to make economy with those delivery prices... But I will had to take on the Internet.

Thanks !

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#148 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 02 okt 2017, 18:34

Sturmovik schreef:Hello Flocke, for your template, you made it as the Kukko 128-1 size ?
yes this one 128-1
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#149 Bericht door Sturmovik » 02 okt 2017, 20:38

1mm higher and it don't fit ^^ It hurt my wallet, but I need it... the harder will be the BO17, but I know that I will conserve my whole life. Ad to make other Kreidler Blok to give sense ^^

Thanks

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#150 Bericht door Flocke » 02 okt 2017, 22:03

Kreidler used a two arm puller for this task (see repair manual).
However, with a special puller is the work better to do.

@Enzo, the puller at the pic, is this really a Kukko 128/1 ?

The Kukko 128/1 should be convenient, see my pics. The diameter of the gear wheel is approximately 31mm (puller clearance 36mm) , the needed height is 32mm (the height of the puller is 38mm).

The only thing, it would be a little bit better, if the aperture would be a little bit smaller than 18mm, but under 17mm would it be perhaps too tight. So, with 18mm diameter you have 1mm overlap on both sides of the gear wheel, please consider, the ring underneath the gear wheel has a diameter of 20mm (see last pic, I turned the lower side of the gear wheel up to show the ring of 20mm diameter).
I think the overlap of 1mm on both sides and on a semicircle should be sufficient, usually the gear wheel is not so firm on the crank, so in the past I could loose the wheel with a two arm puller as well.

In case the overlap should be too small, there is the possibility to make a special semicircle washer with a diameter of 15mm and add this washer at the puller. However, I don't believe, that this will be necessary.

I will order the Kukko 128/1, I think, I will not find a better puller for this task, at Amazon for a good price (29€ incl. shipping within Germany).

Greetings

Carsten
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