Kreidler K54/53B 1973

Verslagen van restauraties, het volledig opknappen en opnieuw opbouwen van een Kreidler - Restoring a Kreidler
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Sturmovik
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#76 Bericht door Sturmovik » 07 feb 2016, 10:41

Hello and thank you for your support

I bought this Guia contactslot because I thought it was the original mounted on cockpit version...

For the Lenkerschalter, I had this one "No Name" with the bike.

Afbeelding

If i understood, I shoold Use slots 49a and 31 to have Ignition, and swap the + and the ground between my MHKZ and the electronic box ?
So cables need to go to the contactslot and return to teh electonic box, is it correct ?

Afbeelding

For the lenkerschalter, I've understood that 56a and 56b are for the Headlight, so Grey and Orange on my plan, but what about 58 and 56 ?

On my model, I've two buttons on the chrome cap, for claxon and circuit break, I don't know how head light work (Also to switch between Dim and High Beam)

Thanks, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#77 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 09 feb 2016, 21:07

Sturmovik schreef:Hello and thank you for your support

I bought this Guia contactslot because I thought it was the original mounted on cockpit version...

For the Lenkerschalter, I had this one "No Name" with the bike.


If i understood, I shoold Use slots 49a and 31 to have Ignition, and swap the + and the ground between my MHKZ and the electronic box ?
So cables need to go to the contactslot and return to teh electonic box, is it correct ?


For the lenkerschalter, I've understood that 56a and 56b are for the Headlight, so Grey and Orange on my plan, but what about 58 and 56 ?

On my model, I've two buttons on the chrome cap, for claxon and circuit break, I don't know how head light work (Also to switch between Dim and High Beam)

Thanks, Florian
Merit is very easy because a large Motorcycles have that. And the same numbers.


No 56 is Yellow from lightcoil and no 58 is grey for the backlight (read my link) :!: :!:
Here the electrical schema of Kreidler with Claxon en motor off-switch
https://www.kreidler.nl/techniek/electrical/65super.jpg

Enzo
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#78 Bericht door Sturmovik » 22 jun 2017, 20:25

Good evening,

I apologize for the long absence, I had a few troubles with the job, my car, and the fathers bike this last year, so I unfortuantely let the Kreidler aside since...

I thank you Enzo for the help you give me about the shakelaars, and i'm a shame to respond one year after !

I decided to continue my Florett, I finally finded some time to work on !

I didn't continue my bike since the last year, but I started it several times to preserve oil seals....etc

I founded some new troubles with my top end, who was leaking between cilinder and cilinder head !

My father decided to correct the surface on a marble plate. The both gasket surfaces are now flat, but with the Kreidler parts 0.1mm gasket, it is always leaking, making my carburation poor ! I mounted it with liquid high temp gasket and it is fine now !

A specialist made me a new Honage, and the bore is not oval..

Afbeelding
Afbeelding

I respected the 0.03mm play between cilinder and piston, all gaskets are new, my carburation is a bit rich, and I adjusted the MHKZ ignition time, so I hope i will not find stripes on the Nicasil like the one I had in the past !

Afbeelding

Too bad that the guy who made me the honage broke cooling fins.......

For the frame, I finally finished the electric beam, and I just have to finish my bowden cables.

Afbeelding
I integrated the Guia slot...

I balanced the two wheels, the better I could, but not the same quality as original... see the default every time we pass the welding...


I finally mounted the new M45 tires, without the tire machine ! Just with lubricate..

The tank need a polish, not made yet. For the seat, i am very angry.... I bought this "denfeld" thinking it was a real one... it is a poor chineese copy ! Poor quality, and not even 1 of the 4 screw holes are in front of the 4 frame support !
Afbeelding
I need to adjust, by "cheating"....

I will try to upload the last pics and videos next time, this is just a summary of the little I made while working... but the thing work

I am thinking to cheat with the clutch lever, to mount it like one other bikes, because mine is very hard to pull (Maybe not original clutch diaphragm) - Im thinking to mount it like this :

https://blackmambaparts.com/2016/02/10/ ... shevelset/


Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#79 Bericht door Sturmovik » 20 jul 2017, 15:09

Hello,

I have some issues with the clutch. I didn't mounted correctly because It start to clutch after the point of the "Hevel" pass the mark on the left carter...

Afbeelding

I dissassembled the thing to check what thickness of "vulring" I mounted last year. I have already two thick ring, and the thin 0.5mm "vulring". Schould I add others on the Drukstift ? How many can we mount ? > I did NOT forget the ball inside gearbox between the two drukstifts...

I find the clutch hard, in comparison to my friend RS. The three M6 screw are correct : straight, and 2 and and half back... What is the original thickness of the "Schotelveer" ? I maybe not have the original, and thats maybe the reason its so hard to pull..

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#80 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 20 jul 2017, 16:45

It is 2 turns back

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#81 Bericht door Sturmovik » 21 jul 2017, 01:05

I'll thank you, I note for 2 turns back, but It still very hard to pull... I measure 1.5mm of thickness for the Schotelveer, original or harder ?

Afbeelding

To have the hevel point looking to the carter mark, I Had to put two 1.5mm slice + one of 0.5mm.... isn't it too much ?
Afbeelding

Whilst, some news about the thing...

I finally finished the both wheels, and balanced the better I could...
Afbeelding
As I say (In french) there is an issue i cannot get throught, where the circle is welded, cannot balance better.. Circles are "RAEDELLI" maybe not as much good as Schürmann ?

And a small video of the montage of the BT45 on the friend RS, but I mounted the same on mine...


And for the blok, I get my cilinder to honage again, last one was crap made...
Afbeelding

For the cilinder head, I had few time gasket leaking...with new ones... and we checked for both surfaces, FLAT !
So I had some sealing compound to test...

It is ok, but only 7 bars of compressie. My cilinder is a 15.43.99 and the head a 15.43.26 - I'm wondering if it is the version i can mount without koppakking...not sure.

Afbeelding

Otherwise, I finally finished my bowden cables.... and they are robust.

I bought all of pieces, like barrel, nipples, slaves in UK at Venhill.

First, I cut my slaves to the wanted length, and put the cable In....and the nipples.
Afbeelding

Then, I crimped/pinch the nipple with an electrical lug tool, to maintain the cable correctly...

With the crimped nipple, I can now twist each "cords" before welding, without messing up the cable...
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

With a generous quantity of flux, and a bath through tin
Afbeelding
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

Normally the nipple didn't need to be "shave", It fit directly on the levers/hevel

And there is the complet bowdencable for the rear brake, finished :
Afbeelding

Otherwise, Is asked my father for the clutch, I wanted to pull like on others bikes. He made me this small piece by my paper patroon, that would support the koppelingskabel tensioner, because Im reversing the " Hevel "
Afbeelding

I don't like the original system of the slave pulling the Clutch Hevel, I prefer that the cable tow the hevel like on every other bikes.

Today Im having troubles with the French authorities to get my papers, but Ill thank you for the advice to contact Mr Scheidt ! He gave me an A.B.E Papers for mine RS, and said me a lot of my bike history since born !

The today look, not finished shure, but its begin to look like a bike.
Afbeelding

Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#82 Bericht door Frédéric » 21 jul 2017, 08:40

Bonjour,

Votre restauration est comme la finition des voitures francaise, encore beaucouq de travail.
La culasse il faudra la mettre sur la tour et il faut mettre un joint en alu, le silicone ne tiendra pas.
Si vous etes interesser moi j'ai de selles denfeld restaurer avec du cuir (comme d'origine), je peut vous envoyez des photos.

frédéric

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#83 Bericht door Sturmovik » 22 jul 2017, 11:07

My Restauration is not finish YET ! My target was not a showroom condition, I make what I can. Sure the tanks need a new chrom, the mudgard isnt Kreidler, and the backlight is not a 73 ULO, but I like it. I cannot afford me a new chrom yet, it will be in a few years.

For the cilinderkop and cilinder surfaces, we already made it flat. For the alu gasket it is a shit, already tested with two different, the head tightened to 15Nm in the correct screw order, and always leaking ! I read on a Kreidler ETlist that some top end could be mounted without kop pakking, only liquid sealing... :

Afbeelding

Because I had only 7 bars of compressie, I think I can test without koppakking, but maybe another foet pakking size...



For the Seat, I bought this " Denfeld " , thinking it was a good aftermarket, not this chinese crap.. But I bored some new holes, and put some insert tap. It fit, but not perfect sure...

For the french cars, I know.... I have and old Peugeot and it is gonna kill me ! Damned rust../

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#84 Bericht door Sturmovik » 30 jul 2017, 12:48

Hello,

Have someones mounted front "spatbord" RVS ? My actual mudgard isn't a Kreidler, and didnot fit correctly, cannot ride with it.
I founded the edelmetal RVS, thats ok for 40€, but the price of the beugels killed me !

https://www.kreidlerparts.com/parts/57. ... t-19731982

In addition I have to put two 57.05.30 rubbers, and I need every screws too...damned.

Thanks, Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#85 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 30 jul 2017, 13:02

If you bring two used "beugels" to the Chroming factory than you understand the price better

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#86 Bericht door Sturmovik » 30 jul 2017, 13:13

Hello Enzo,

unfortunately I have not chroming factory in my region, and not even in the border areas... A lot have closed the past years.

Is those two 70€ beugels even in good quality and durable, or cheap as my Chinese Denfeld (Was not mentioned economy) ?

Thanks

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#87 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 30 jul 2017, 13:17

Sturmovik schreef:Hello Enzo,

unfortunately I have not chroming factory in my region, and not even in the border areas... A lot have closed the past years.

Is those two 70€ beugels even in good quality and durable, or cheap as my Chinese Denfeld (Was not mentioned economy) ?

Thanks
If they come from China no
If they come from a good Chroming factory yes

I pay many years ago 35 euro for a kickstarter pedal for Chroming #-o

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#88 Bericht door mvl » 31 jul 2017, 11:53

Very nice project!

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#89 Bericht door Sturmovik » 24 aug 2017, 12:21

Hello guys, some news about my Florett.

After boring issues to get my papers, I finally received my bike registration, the license plate, and insurance for about 80€ a year.

I invested into an original stainless steel front mudguard and the two mouting "beugels" at Kreidler Dienst.de. I hope the chrom would not be a shit in upcoming years.

For the clutch i asked John Bos for the "shoetelveer" : Mine 1.5mm thick is the original... I don't know why the lever is so hard to pull because the two M6 screws are 2 turn back, and my bowden is freshly greased...

For the gearbox, I filled one-third liter of an SAE80 Gearoil from Castrol, but when pulling clutch lever, passing the first gear cause the block to lead the back wheel when on center crutch..

When I pass the first, I have severel loss of RPM. It is more pronouced when the blok is cold. Maybe I should try an other brand.

I find the clutch imprecise, by mid RPM it sleep's a bit.. But I need an "hevel veer" too !

Did someone sell a spring like on those japanese bikes ? Because with my inverted mount I cannot use the original, or I should change the hevel.

I did not resist to make a quick ride, and what a pleasure after those years !!!

I was worried about the driving with M handlebar, but when seated in the front of the seat it is pleasent.

But not for my back, I litterally seat on my ass ho** with this chinese sport "Denfeld"... Need to stand up at every red light cross to relieve...

About the RS, upshifting is great, and it is crazy the clearance you have on the lever after the 5th gear ! But for the downshifting some gears are cracking a bit. What oil you use ?

I used a 0.01 comparator to find the 0.95 top dead point, marked a line between flywheel and carter with a sharpie, and used the strobolamp to allign ignition.

Now it is perfect, but the caburation need some adjusting. I started with the mixture screw an half turn back (Bing 1/20/59) but sound still to fat.

When arriving at a stop I stalled several times, and the RPM revs is not perfect. I prefer for the moment a bit of fat for the first kilometers.

I used a Castrol semi-synth oil for the tank mixture... very expansive the bottle !

Whilst, I have some issues with the secundary transmission. I stretched the chain to keep like 30mm of clearance before riding, and when driving, the two swingarm eccentric moves back, even with high torque on the wheel axis bolt !

This nicked me the carter after only 500m before I realize.
Afbeelding

I find on many dutch shop a small nylon bus for Direkt blok, but I made a much cheaper mounting. Certainly ugly, but I fit perfect, and I can make a few more when this will be over.

Afbeelding
Afbeelding

But for the friend indirekt RS I cannot, I think to order him this steel "geleider".

For the chain tension, I many time thinked to buy the RVS Tensioner with screws...
http://ralfwaldmann.kreidlervanveen.de/ ... 1379882548

Not in stock on many shops. I don't much like the original eccenters, I mounted them good, with the slice, and on clean surface, but they slide on the swingarm after few kilometers, causing the chain tension to decrease.

For the blok, I have not the both "verkleidung" but I prefer it visible. After a bit of heat the aftermarket airbox fit perfectly. I mounted an original steel Bing Filter. An what you see on the middle is a rubber band to prevent the filter fastening to scratch the frame paint...

Afbeelding

Too bad that the machine operator broke me those cooling fins.... looks like ass.

Afbeelding

For the ignition cable Im searching how to fasten. The ignition Box is screwed on the frame instead of the original MHKZ support because of the modified clutch bowden passing. But the two thread bored on the frame where made in the past, not from me, but I used them for the igintion box.

Afbeelding

Back to the 70s !

Afbeelding

Next step is some videos, and to go in Germany !

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#90 Bericht door Sturmovik » 28 aug 2017, 22:40

Here is a small video i made to explain my clutch issues if some guys wanna watch. And forget my horrible accent, I rarely speak english...



I used a mineral SAE80 oil, maybe I should better use the Kroon Oil...

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#91 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 28 aug 2017, 23:01

Your clutch did not work
something you did wrong

spring can you buy

http://www.kreidlerservice.nl/?566,15.1 ... gsveer-kvv

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#92 Bericht door hermanngas » 28 aug 2017, 23:28

" . . . . the original eccenters, I mounted them good"

I dont think so, see the pictures
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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#93 Bericht door Sturmovik » 29 aug 2017, 10:10

My bad for kettenspanner, will try the correct mount.

For the clutch Enzo, I ordered the KVV spring :) But while delivery, I open again the clutch carter to understand...

The lever start to engage the clutch spring (shoetelveer) when the hevel mark his passing the carter mark : So that is correct.. And I have a good 0.5mm play before.

Thanks, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#94 Bericht door Sturmovik » 29 aug 2017, 11:35

Hello Guys,

I just dissasembled the clutch to see... I correctly turn 2 round back the three M6 screw, have a bit axial play on the drukstift, but I find the comming of my engine noise when idling... comme from the play between disks and basket.



For the clutch issue, maybe my SAE80 did paste the disks together.

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#95 Bericht door Caspar » 02 sep 2017, 10:30

Nice retro bike 8)
Try BelRay Gearsaver SAE80W oil for your clutch

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#96 Bericht door Sturmovik » 08 sep 2017, 20:35

Hello, thanks for support. I will try first with the Kroon Id bought on last parts order ;)

One question about the clutch : It as rubbed my koppelingsdecksel : Afbeelding

Maybe when the M6 screws where turned 2 1/2 back...

Today I discover, with the 3 M6 screw 2 turn back, that when I pull the lever, it pass very near from the koppelingdecksel (Without the gasket, it TOUCH !)

I also dismantled again the clutch to control If i miss something, but no, everything is there... BUT : I have 0.25 axial play for the clutch Basket (The vulring 13.06.15 is mounted !)

> https://www.kreidler.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27929

" Koppelingsnaaf axiale speling 0,2- 0,3 mm

Enzo "


So this seems to be correct that I can move the basket even when "naaf" is tightened and braked whith the ring under the bolt.

Let me summarize :

I have this clutch basket : ??.67.97 I did not find anything about this one. This one HAS NOT the 15.57.20 Spring mounted with the two stud/rivet
Afbeelding

I mounted it with the vulring (13.06.15) of 0.3mm that gave me about 0.25mm of axialspiel on the basket when everything is mouted and torque tighten !

The clutch "naaf" is this 15.07.99 :
Afbeelding

Afbeelding

Is received today the KVV spring and mounted it. To have the correct function of hevel (Pulling the clutch when passing the carter line), I have to mount those slices/vulring on the small drukstift :

Afbeelding
Afbeelding

I don't understand for the three M6 screw that rubbed the koppelingdecksel. I may try with 1 and an half turn back only... Something is wrong but what ?

I respected the gearbox axles play when I overhauled the engine last year, so the gearbox isn't moving from left to right, causing the clutch to rub the koppelingdecksel... The gasket is maybe to thin.

Is not the 0.3mm axialplay on the clutch basket to much ? It cause noise moving left to right. I first thinked that I mounted the wrong vulring, but...

If you have any idea. Wondering about this ??.67.97 basket...

Have a nice week-end, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#97 Bericht door Caspar » 10 sep 2017, 13:12

No idea About the basket.
But the new gaskets are as thin as a newspaper page.
There are thicker gaskets available.
Usualy the shim/vulring for the gearbox axle is placed on the leeft side of the axle.
Try to put iT on the right side of the axle , in combination withe the thicker gasket , iT Will do.

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#98 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 10 sep 2017, 13:19

Caspar schreef:No idea About the basket.
But the new gaskets are as thin as a newspaper page.
There are thicker gaskets available.
Usualy the shim/vulring for the gearbox axle is placed on the leeft side of the axle.
Try to put iT on the right side of the axle , in combination withe the thicker gasket , iT Will do.
This is the best one to fit

https://www.kreidlerparts.com/parts/15. ... er-Florett

Enzo

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#99 Bericht door Sturmovik » 10 sep 2017, 20:05

Good evening guys, I thank you for your support, it is a pleasure to talk to passionnate !

" But the new gaskets are as thin as a newspaper page " Like for the spruitstuck pakking...!

Today I mounted two gasket for the clutch cap, sounds like tweaked but for the moment it don't touch anymore :)

" Usualy the shim/vulring for the gearbox axle is placed on the leeft side of the axle.
Try to put iT on the right side of the axle , in combination withe the thicker gasket , iT Will do.
"

I dont predic to re-open the just overhauled blok yet (Exept if issues are coming). I don't remember which vulring I used for the first gear axle (1 year ago) but at this time I ordered a few vulring for all the axles include kickstater, vulrings for crankshaft bearings...etc, and I remember that I mounted for each axle the correct ring to have the wanted axial play : Remember a year ago :
Afbeelding

Shit I did not write the plays I reach on a paper, but they were fine :) And yes, I placed the vulring on the left side, like on the shop book.

The little 0.25 play of the clutch basket is effectively noisy while iddle. But today I rode 100km, and with the bit more clearance/play I ad on the drukstift, and the Kroon Oil, It is now a pleasure ! Clutch works fine !

> Enzo, on my next order I will take this gasket, I thank you.

I have an other reference on my strange clutch basket : L&B

Afbeelding

Maybe an aftermarket one, or a custom made ^^ The gear is a 79 teeth, and the primar gear on the crankshaft has 20.
Afbeelding

Very nice the bronze bus.

The disk thikness are like for new one, but seems to have too much play !
Afbeelding

I will need to keep an eye on it on the comming kilometers....

Afbeelding

No more annoying to fill the blok ^^
Afbeelding

A last thing, my exhaust is leaking :
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

I tried to roll a teflon tap on the tube because it is leaking between bocht and demper too...
Afbeelding

And I had this glassfiber tap for the silencers because no more the asbestos uitlaat kord, but It leaks again. What do you use for the exhaust ?
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

Thanks and have a nice week, Florian

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Re: Kreidler K54/53B 1973

#100 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 10 sep 2017, 20:31

With the cord and extra make it oil tight with Hylomar -50 - +250 grad Celcius
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