Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

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Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#1 Bericht door Sturmovik » 22 jun 2017, 20:56

Hello,

a friend of mine has a swiss RS in a really good shape, and I proposed to make it a small service for him.

Afbeelding
Afbeelding

He has the old swiss registration papers, and I'm looking forward to create the french ones, but I have a few doubts..

The bike first ride date is from November 1975. It is said that is a K54/53CH, but the Bouwjaar is missing !!! :shock:
Afbeelding

Otherwise, i didn't find anywhere this color, with the leg protector, the big luggage carry, and the ULO achterlicht in 1975. Isn't she looking like a TM ?

For the blok, it's a B15-5H, and indirekt
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

Like on mine RS blok, we have not the motornummer on the right side above clutch, but below
Afbeelding

" H29 H29 " Strange or ? On mine its something like 633 b33 or 633 633 on the same position, below the blok.

I thinking that is not the motor number, but a type. Correct ?

> For exemple, Mine is writted B15/47P, so from 1981 by Kreidler database, but I have some small 79 affected in carters.. I didnt understand.


The problem is that the french state ask me for the the motor number to create the new registration papers, and on those both we haven't just digits, but letters too.

I started to think that carters were changed in the past, and that spare parts were not always labeled ?

Whilst, under the dust, his Kreidler is in real good shape I am just amazed !

Afbeelding

Wont be restaured ! Just cleaned, and change what need to be changed, like the frame buses ! Old where completely broked.
Afbeelding

For the engine, he seems to had some ground problems in the past ^^ :lol:
Afbeelding

After a clean, I planned some oil seals change. Only 20.000 km, I suggested him to check the top end, for the piston, and maybe the clutch. The bottom end appair to be good, no crankshaft play, no leaks.

For the frame, need to hoverhaul the front fork and to change some rubbers, but almost no rust !

So, is this really a 1975 ? The leg cover was maybe added in the past. He has the 1 person seat, with the gearbox inside ! Strange the thing with blok numbers :?

Thanks, Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#2 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 22 jun 2017, 22:51

Zwitserland has no Production year
This one is from 1975

Also no Motornumber, but under a motortype
B15 is Motor Type

5 is 5 gear and letter is year

C=1968
D=1969
E=1970
F=1971
G=1972
H=1973 .....


B29 and B29 is paired carters. A production set

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#3 Bericht door Caspar » 23 jun 2017, 08:26

This is the " low budget" 1975 Swiss RS.
Every thing seems to be normal.
My 1981 Swiss K54/511CH Has also no manufacturing year or engine number,

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#4 Bericht door Sturmovik » 23 jun 2017, 09:35

I thank you for the explain. So there is only motor numbers on old bloks on the right side above clutch is this right ? For the year missing, did you know why they didn't made it in Kornwestheim for the swiss models ? And why not motor number like every other brand ?

My problem is to justify that those missing numbers are "normal" to the french registration service... I may quote the topic, because I think they would not understand that the motor has no number, even if the bike is not stolen !

I was wondering if this was really a 1975, because i didnot find a swiss RS like this on the Kreidler Museum, and even on Google, no RS with those accessories and this colour for 75, and not with this grey tank..

Have you and old dealer poster with this model which I can proof the authenticity ?

Thanks, have a nice day.

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#5 Bericht door Andy » 23 jun 2017, 11:36

Behind the ignition you will find the production number off the engine. And under the frame on the right side by the footsteps there is also the production number off the frame.
On the left side off the tank, under there by the m6 is also an production number. And maybe on the tire's.

So 3 points to see what the production/sale year is.

This is really an strange RS, everything look like an RS accept the colour grey. Very special one :thumbsup

Andy,

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#6 Bericht door Caspar » 23 jun 2017, 12:16

The manufactering year is missing because they could also sell it in 1976.
50% of my kreidlers didn't have a manufactering year . No worry.
The same story for the engine number : as you can see in the database , there is no kreidler with matching numbers.

About the colour : either this is a very rare RS , or this RS was made as a TM in the first place.

Anyway: nice bike in good shape.

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#7 Bericht door Sturmovik » 23 jun 2017, 18:18

Thank you for support.

The problem is that I need to "justifiy" to the french administration for registration, they would not understand that we have no engine and frame number.

Otherwise, when I write K54/53CH I find 72 and before models with the old fork, not superbreitwand.... this one look more like the TM as you said.

I wanted to give a Kreidler Musuem page with my case so the expert know the technical specification.... for mine K54/53B i finded the correct page, but if I choose the 53CH of my friend, It has not the correct frame numbers*, it match not...

* In the past i founded a big table of Kreidler framenummer on the Kreidler database, for exemple it helped me to identify mine.... I remember of a green or cyan page where all the different models where writted.... I didn't find it anymore... (Look like the page with the mahle cilinder, cilinder kop, carb....)

If Kreidler did not write baujahr of swiss model in the factory, It was the dealer that was supposed to ad the year before sell ? No ?

Thanks

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#8 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 23 jun 2017, 18:42

No year and motornumber on the Swiss model :!:

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#9 Bericht door Caspar » 24 jun 2017, 12:21

Sturmovik schreef:Thank you for support.

The problem is that I need to "justifiy" to the french administration for registration, they would not understand that we have no engine and frame number.

Otherwise, when I write K54/53CH I find 72 and before models with the old fork, not superbreitwand.... this one look more like the TM as you said.

I wanted to give a Kreidler Musuem page with my case so the expert know the technical specification.... for mine K54/53B i finded the correct page, but if I choose the 53CH of my friend, It has not the correct frame numbers*, it match not...

* In the past i founded a big table of Kreidler framenummer on the Kreidler database, for exemple it helped me to identify mine.... I remember of a green or cyan page where all the different models where writted.... I didn't find it anymore... (Look like the page with the mahle cilinder, cilinder kop, carb....)

If Kreidler did not write baujahr of swiss model in the factory, It was the dealer that was supposed to ad the year before sell ? No ?

Thanks
Indeed : the dealer added the manufactering year.
The Kreidler data base isnt open anymore .
You could sent Maloud (Louis Dorr) frome the database an email and ask for help.
I suppose your Kreidler is registrated in the database ?

Otherwise, for a couple of Euro's : Scheidt in Germany can produce a "zweitschrift" (copy of the first permit) .

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#10 Bericht door Helmantel » 24 jun 2017, 21:09

The 5 146 266 frame number would put it in the 5 143 624 - 5 153 602 for the 1974 RS model year (found on www.kreidler-museum.de). As far as I know, the Swiss RS models didn't have their own frame number range, but were mixed in with the rest of the RS's. Later TM models got their own range (59xxxxxxx).

With the model year starting in September, there's a chance that the Kreidler was made in (calender year) 1973 as a 1974 model. That would also match the B15-5H number stamped in the engine crankcase, where the H stands for 1973 according to Enzo's list. There should be date codes in the ignition side crank case halves as well, behind the ignition.

Although it looks like one, it's not a TM with an RS block, because it is type 54/53 and a TM would be 54/54

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#11 Bericht door Sturmovik » 26 jun 2017, 12:59

Ill thank you for all of your explications.

For the Database i did not contact Maloud, I just made a small service on this swiss RS this week, and now having trouble with papers...

I will ask. What about Scheidt ? They give a certificat of authenticity for the Bike ?

I give to the french administration the Kreidler Museum page of the RS 74, and those dumbs are asking me why it isn't the same colour, the same year..... it is gonna be hard to proof ^^ I'de give them this topic link, hope they will take the time to read !

Even on an original bike they are searching troubles..... how you do when you want to ride a Willys Jeep.....

Thanks for the time you take for me, Florian

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#12 Bericht door Enzo-tvdzijden » 26 jun 2017, 13:02

Hr Scheidt had no Swiss database Service

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#13 Bericht door kilometerfresser » 27 jun 2017, 20:37

Look at http://www.ruscheido.de/Impressum.html Send him an email with the following text:

Hallo Herr Scheidt,

ich möchte eine Schweizer TM mit der FG Nr. 5146266, Typ K54/53 CH in Frankreich zulassen. Leider gibt es hier Probleme mit den Behörden. Können Sie mir Informationen über das Fahrzeug geben, insbesondere Baujahr und an welchen Händler oder Importeur geliefert?

Können Sie mir bestätigen, dass Kreidler Fahrzeuge für den Export in die Schweiz immer ohne Baujahr auf dem Typenschild und in den Papieren und ohne Motornummer ausgeliefert wurden?

Mit Dank im Voraus und freundlichen Grüßen

XX

He will answer soon.

Gr.

Bernd

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#14 Bericht door Caspar » 27 jun 2017, 20:50

:thumbleft

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#15 Bericht door Sturmovik » 28 jun 2017, 10:46

Ill thank you kmfresser für this great message, very generous, I have sent this, linked with some pictures, to Herr Scheidt.

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#16 Bericht door Sturmovik » 28 jun 2017, 12:45

Hello again,

whilst waiting next for the paper, I'm finishing this small service one the friend bike. Cilinder head was leaking, and i wanna see how as doing the piston (Aprox. 19000km)

He's in great shape, we have yet about 0.03mm of play between him and the cilinder. I told him we may go for a honage for the nikasil, but he don't want.
Afbeelding
Afbeelding

For the piston, it is a 40L48, and its a J like on my RS ! Meaning that he has already been changed, or that the cilinder was measuring already 40.01mm at the factory :shock:
Afbeelding

For the conrod, I don't feel radial play. We have about 0.20mm of axial :
Afbeelding

I told him that after 40 yers the oil seals could be changed (And the bike didnot run a few years) : Today they look still soft, and I have no oil leak after 3 days....but I 100% shure I will need to dismantle again and replace in a few weeks... I cannot force him..
Afbeelding

Top is clean and ready
Afbeelding

On mine RS I had a few problems of air leaking between cilinder and cilinder head, even with the new Kreidler parts gasket and a flat surfaces...
So I ad a couple of sealing compound. I've seen on an old Kreidler shop page that on some RS they mounted the cilinder top without the aluminium gasket of 0.1mm, just with liquid gasket, meaning more compressie... Do you know about ?

A look into the Left hand carter, behind the igntion :

Afbeelding
Third week of 74 for the produce date ?

Thanks, Best Regards, Florian

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#17 Bericht door Andy » 28 jun 2017, 16:38

Well done...............

Andy,

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Re: Some doubts about the registration of a Swiss RS

#18 Bericht door Sturmovik » 01 jul 2017, 16:51

Hello,
Mr Scheidt give me an answer and I am really impressed ! He told me the day of production, the 22 Februar of 74, and even the shop where it was sended at the time ! (Zurich). My friend bought the RS in the region ; Its also was a 1st hand !

Last day I re-mounted the top of the block with my Kreidlerparts 5V gasket set, and the kick is harder than a 4 stroke ! I measured the compression with my tool, about 17 bars !!! God i may broke the oil seals !

My question, are swiss RS supposed to be mounted with larger cilinderkop pakking ? Mine RS had about 7 Bars of compression...

Cilinder : Not sur of reading, 15.73.83 40ZN8
Cilinderkop : Mark of 72, cannot see the number whilst mounted
Carb : Bing 1/20/59 Sproiers 75 and 30
Exhaust : 15.33.97 the bocht is in one part with the end, we only can remove the baffle for cleaning.

B15 - 5H Blok

Thanks, Best Regards, Florian

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